ROME · Jun 25, 07:00 AM

Rome wears tee shirt by Joe Sikora

Photos: J. Naughton

Interview with Rome

When I first hooked up with Rome a cast covered the Old English SCR, swords and cross tattoos on his right arm, the marks of A Simon City Royal gang member. The cops saw something they didn’t like and broke his right arm with Billy clubs, ruining his plans of working construction. Rome still stays in touch with brothers in his home state of Wisconsin and with brothers in Chicago, Mississippi, and California, but he is going legit.
Rome couldn’t work construction but he’s an expecting father and he has to make some cash so he took a job at Target. Rome had just gotten off a 16-hour shift before he picked me up in what he referred to as his “Lamborghini,” better known as a beat up Chevrolet. He’s got a sense of humor and from guns, cars and fast money to the difficulty of hooking up a decent toothbrush in prison to the nightshift at Target, Rome is gleaming with the smile of a child.

Rome was showing me his photo album and amidst the photos of gang graffiti and brothers with rags over their faces that only leave their eyes exposed, holding shotguns that aren’t just for show, one photo stood out. It was a photo that looked like it would be on a proud mother’s refrigerator, not in this album. “That’s my buddy. He got 45 years for a homicide; first parole chance is in 2009. He looked out for me big time when I first got in the pen, what ever I needed, he took care of it.”

Young Philosopher: What were the charges that landed you in prison?

Rome: There were numerous charges. Four burglaries, felony possession of a fire arm. We stole a car but we weren’t charged with theft because the keys were in it; we were charged with operating a vehicle without the owner’s consent. And we were charged with stealing three stereos but those were all misdemeanors.

YP: Was anyone there for you when you went to prison?

R: My buddy wrote some letters saying there’s a brother coming up and he needs a little bit of guidance, so hook him up.
I went in, met up with some brothers and they hooked me up with a care package, I got a few packages of Ramen noodles, a decent toothbrush, and toothpaste.
From the second I walked into prison to the second I walked out I always had someone looking over me. In turn I looked over them. It goes both ways. You can’t go in there getting greedy, keep getting hook ups and not expect to pay it back. You might not pay them back with money or by giving them back soups. You just look out. If they get into it with somebody you got their back.

YP: What was the biggest change in your life from the day you went into prison to the day you got out?

R: Right before some people get out they get butterflies in their stomachs, but I wasn’t like that. I didn’t really care.
I don’t know if I didn’t care if I got out or if I was scared to get out.
A lot changed. I wasn’t used to the outside world. I went in as a little kid, as a 17 year old punk and I’m coming out at 21 years old as an adult. I went in a simple burglar. I came out a murderer.
Prison doesn’t rehabilitate you, it teaches you how to get away with things.
I learned how to get away with a lot more stuff. I came out criminal minded.

I talked to plenty of people. I did two and a half years in a maximum security. There are murderers up there. They tell you how they did their thing, how they got caught. There are burglars and robbers. You learn so much there.

YP: How did you wind up in a maximum-security prison?

R: I first went into a medium security prison but I threw a cup at a guard. That moved me to maximum status. I got attempted battery to staff.

YP: What?

R: He was being a jerk. He was a black guard. It was his last day there. He was the only minority guard there. Everyone else was white. I don’t know if he had beef or what.

YP: You were in prison for almost three years for that?

R: No, I got 6 years but I served 4.
I can’t say that I regret it because I wouldn’t be where I am now if I didn’t go. I never really thought about school or what might happen in the future. I just lived day by day.

YP: Before you went to prison did it ever occur to you that this might happen?

R: No, it didn’t. Basically I was just living, and that’s how I still do it. I do whatever comes to mind. If I want to go play basketball I do it. I’m not the type of guy who has any phobias. I’m not scared to get behind the wheel because I might get hit by another car. I’m not afraid to walk down the street because I might get robbed. I’m just here.

YP: You wouldn’t be afraid to go anywhere no matter what horror stories you hear about a place?

R: I think that’s what fascinated me about New York. I’d hear people talk about how rough it is in New York City.

YP: What are your first impressions of the city?

R: It’s different from where I used to live. It’s a big change, especially with the different ethnic groups. I’m used to being around mostly Caucasians. I come out here and there are Asians, Hispanics, African Americans, Native Americans, Indonesians.
I see people that I had only seen on television.

YP: What was the neighborhood like where you grew up?

R: It depends. I grew up in a bunch of different spots. I grew up in Steven’s Point, Polonia, West Bend, Hartford, and Kenosha. I lived on a farm until I was about 12. Then I went from living with my dad on the farm to living with my mom in a city of about 30 or 40,000 people, back and forth.
I was in two foster homes during that time.

YP: How old were you when you were in the foster homes?

R: 8 and 10.

YP: Any lasting memories from your time at the foster homes?

R: I can remember the address of the last one, 210 Weir Boulevard, Stevens Point, Wisconsin 54481.
They were good people but you’re not with your family. You’re with somebody else’s family.
I did one year in the first one and one and a half years in the second one.

YP: How old were you when you started hanging out with Royals?

R: I’d been with different cliques or organizations but I didn’t get with the Royals until I was 17.
I had some friends who were Royals but I never really got down with them. I hung out with them and that was it.

YP: Are you still a Royal?

R: Yeah.

YP: How does it feel, after so long, to go legit? Working 16 hour shifts at Target…

R: It’s different from committing crimes and going to prison. When people look at us the first thing that comes to their minds is that these guys are bad, they’re in a gang.
It’s not a gang. I don’t look at it as a ‘gang.’
It’s a bunch of people who come together for a purpose, a purpose with good intentions.
You have your guys who are a little more thuggish and ones who aren’t. To me, it’s a family. It’s who I am. I can’t just say, “I’m not a Royal anymore.” It’s in my blood. I’ve been down with them since I was 17.
I’ve always had a fascination with gangs. When I was 15, my buddy who was half Japanese and half white and I made up our own little crew called the Dragon Clan. We adopted the Japanese symbol for luck and eventually had fifteen members.

YP: We all need to identify with something. When I was 15, I hung out with a tight group of friends who all skateboarded. We shared common interests.

R: Some people might consider skateboarders a gang. Skateboarders, tagging crews, actual gangs, other organizations, but I don’t look at it like that. It’s a family thing and there are divisions, just like there are with any other clique. Your younger one’s are usually the thuggish ones and your older ones are on their money and their family. That’s what we’re about. We’re not about going around and beating up people. I’m older. I’m going to be 26 in July.
There are guys out there committing murders but you’ve got that everywhere. You’ve got people who aren’t in gangs committing murders. What do you call them? Are you going to call them their own little gang? We classify way too much.

YP: Did you look up to certain people in the gang or did you only view the gang as a whole?

R: A little bit of both. There are a couple members who I’d look to and hope that when I got to their ages I would be as well respected. I want to be a model to some of the younger members, and not in a bad way like, ‘he did four years for whooping some dude,’ but like, ‘he did his thing and he’s still around.’
I’ve known brothers who died for this. A lot of people would say that they died for nothing. I don’t look at it like that. He did his thing and he died for his family.
My girlfriend here is pregnant. (She is sitting next to Rome on the bed reading a book about pregnancy.) It would be like if somebody pulled out a gun and tried shooting her and I stepped in front of her. I’d be doing it for my family. That’s how I look at it with Royals. If I were to do something it would be out of love.
It’s family based where I come from but everywhere you go it will be different. They’re different in Wisconsin than they are in Chicago and they’re different in Mississippi too. You’ve got to be careful. You go over here and they’re friends with these guys, but over here they’re not.

YP: Like you were saying that Royals have no beef with Cobras in Wisconsin but Royals and Cobras don’t mingle in Chi town.

R: Yeah, they don’t get along at all. You’ve got to do your homework. When you meet up with someone, just ask. When I went to Chicago I asked who they were beefing with.

YP: Is being a gang member a full time job?

R: Depends on where you live and how many enemies you’ve made.
If you grew up in Chicago and you’re all about gangbanging, then it’s a full time job. You’ve always got to watch your back. You could be an hour away from your house and run into someone you had beef with a few weeks ago. You’ve got to constantly look over your shoulder so you don’t get shot.
I do it. I do it out of habit. It’s not because I’m scared someone is running up on me, but when I was in prison I made some enemies. Just because I’m a Royal I automatically have enemies.
It can be a full time thing but I moved out to New York. As far as I know there aren’t any Royals out here and if there are they are probably older and retired. I don’t go out there flexing it. I don’t say, ‘hey man, I’m a Royal, what are you?’
I’ve been out here for two months and not a single person knows I’m a Royal except for you.

YP: You’re in a big city where you can lay low and pretty much go unnoticed, and like you were saying, there are tons of people from all over the world here, and you’re just another person in that mix. Was it pretty black and white in prison, and difficult to go unnoticed?

R: Yes. White people are the minority at about 22%. Black people are the majority at about 75%. Then it’s 3% Other, Native American, Hispanic.
We were out numbered.

YP: Is race the major factor that determines who you hang out with.

R: It depends on what state you’re in and what kind of prison you’re in. In a lot of prisons that’s how it is but in the prisons I was in we didn’t really stick to our own race. I hung out with black kids; I played ball with them every day. My friend who I was celled up with, who was white, he and I were both good at basketball. We hung out with them, played ball with them, and talked with them. Of course, we had our controversies with them. A lot of them liked to use that word ‘honky’ or ‘peckerwood.’ As soon as you use that word ‘nigger’ they get all defensive. They don’t realize that the equivalent to nigger is honky for a white person or spic to a Mexican or gook to an Asian. It’s all the same word it’s just said differently. It means the same thing.

YP: What does it mean?

R: If I were to call somebody a nigger I could apply that to someone of any race. A nigger is a dirty person who is always looking for handouts, who doesn’t work for a living. He is a low life of that race.
I don’t care what people think about me. I don’t care what they think about how I look, but I take care of myself.
There’s a difference between a nigger and a black person when you’re using it towards them but when you try and explain it…forget it. They don’t want to hear it.
They hear the N-word and it’s on like Donkey Kong. They want to fight.
I’ve had black people ask me, ‘You don’t like niggers, do you?’
I tell them, ‘No, I don’t like niggers but I don’t dislike black people.’ There’s a difference.
A lot of people think I’m racist because I have a shaved head and tattoos.
That’s not true. If I was a skinhead, if I was such a racist, would I be with a Hispanic woman?

YP: Would she be with you?

R: Yeah she would. (We all laugh).

YP: You doing all right Wendy? We’re not bothering you too much.

W: No, I’m fine.

R: The N-word is one of the biggest things in prison. You say that word and you’ve got every black guy popping his head out.
I was on a unit. There were 40 people total. There were 7 white people and 33 black people. 3 of the white guys belonged to a white power organization, so there were 4 or us who weren’t with the white power organization. We all stuck together though. I hung out with the black guys on the unit but I stuck with the white guys because we have more in common.

YP: Rome, what really matters to you? Do you value honesty, loyalty…?

R: If I’m busted for a crime you better believe I’m trying to get out of it. I will stretch the truth. I did four years for bending the truth. When I went to prison I did four years for five people.
I wrote them all letters. I told them, ‘Don’t say anything.’ One of them just had a baby and I didn’t want him taken away from his baby. One had never been to prison. Another one had been to jail but he’d never been to prison.
I knew I’d get a couple years but I told them all, ‘Don’t say anything. I’m gonna take the wrap.’
I told the police, after nine hours of them trying to drill me and me telling them bullshit stories, ‘I did it and I did it all by myself.’
They were trying to get everybody’s name. I didn’t give any names.
I believe in street justice. I don’t believe in a system.
If this guy kills one of your family members, okay, an eye for an eye, you take one of his family members. But then his family member can come at you because it’s an eye for an eye and it can go on forever.

YP: Like the Montagues and Capulets.

R: You have to have a little law, a little something that will put an end to it but if someone whoops my brother you better believe I’m coming at him.
My uncle killed my Dad. He shot him six times and dragged him behind a truck for a quarter of a mile where he dumped the body.
I had the chance when I was in prison to go to the same prison he was in. I could have kept my mouth shut. I could have caught him and I would have killed him. I would have grabbed a weight and smashed him in the face with it. I don’t know exactly what I would have done but I know that I wouldn’t have stopped until he stopped breathing.
He took my dad from me. I haven’t seen my dad since I was 12 years old.
I had two choices. I could have kept my mouth shut and they would have sent me to that prison and I’d be in prison right now doing life, for killing him. But I spoke up.
If I went to the prison where my uncle was, I knew that later on I would have regretted it. To this day I don’t regret anything. I went to prison; it was a life experience. It’s only a mistake if you don’t learn from it, right? It’s something that a lot of people will never experience.
I’ve met people in there who I’m still in contact with today, a lot of people, a lot of good people. It’s not like I met all these bad people and I’m hanging out with them and doing crimes. I’m trying to do the right thing.

YP: What values do you want to instill in your child? What kind of role model do you want to be?

R: When I was growing up I didn’t have any money. I’m working an average of 50 hours a week and I’m doing that because I’m trying to get money. I’m trying to save up money for the child so he doesn’t have to go through what I went through, committing crimes to get money. I’d like him to have a good education. I’d like it if his mother didn’t baby him so he grows up to be a mamma’s boy or mamma’s girl.
I’d like to pass down loyalty. I’d like to give him the chances I never had. I never really liked school but I’d like to let him know that school is important. You can’t really get ahead, especially nowadays, unless you’ve got an education.
I’d like to give our child the opportunities I never had. I’d like my child to say, ‘He’s the best dad,’ and mean it, not give me a trophy that says, ‘#1 DAD,’ and get one of those every father’s day. I don’t want ties either. I’d be happy with a happy father’s day wish.
He’s going to learn that I’ve been in prison. I’m not hiding anything from him. He’s going to learn about how I grew up and how she grew up.

YP: You told me that you miss your dog. Is there anyone else back in Wisconsin who you miss?

R: I miss my godson. I lived with him for nine months. When my best friend went to prison I told him that I would be there for the family. I lived with his wife and three kids. I love my little godson like he was my own. I’ve been there since the day he was born. I think I was there when he was conceived.
I was in the delivery room for 29 hours. I was there the second he was born. I’ve been there from the get. He’s my little buddy; he resembles his daddy.
I’d like for my relationship with my kid to come out like his and mine.
When I left and came out to New York he used to come home everyday and say, ‘Ome, Ome, where’s Ome.’ He couldn’t say his R’s too well.
I used to wrestle with him all the time. He’d be chasing me and Royal, that’s my dog, would be chasing him.
I love my godson and I hope I have that relationship with my son. I’m looking forward to it in seven months.

YP: That race stuff we were talking about, it’s like, yeah there are differences between people. We are all raised differently and we act differently, not to say that is dependant solely on race, but family stuff is for everybody. Playing with a kid, showing him or her that you love them, playing with your dog, missing him when he’s not around, everyone can relate to that.

R: I feel strongly about family.
I don’t like people messing with three things in my life. Number one is my family and family is anyone I consider my family.
(Points to Wendy) She’s my girlfriend, not my wife, but she’s my family.
I have different levels. If I meet someone, three days later I’m not going to introduce him or her as a friend. They’re an acquaintance.
You don’t have to have the same blood, the same last name or family ties as me just to be my family. If we’re good enough friends, we’re brothers.
Number two is friends. Don’t mess with my friends. If I’m at a club and I see that someone is trying to get into it with a friend, I’ve done it before, I’ll jump past the friend and knock a person out. I’ll be quick to jump on someone.
I’m not the best fighter in the world. In New York there’s a lot of people; I’m sure a lot of better fighters but I’ll throw down. I don’t care if you outnumber me 5 to 1, if you’re gonna be that much of a punk and come at me like that then I guess you’re gonna come at me. I’m going to give it my all. If I lose, so be it.
Number three is my money. Don’t mess with my money. I keep track of my hours. When I clock in I write it down and when I clock out I write it down.
If you mess with my money you mess with my life. You’re taking away from me, my kid, and my livelihood.

YP: Who do you work with at Target?

R: Mostly Hispanics and a number of black people. I’m not talking about blacks from America. They come right over from Africa. They have an accent.
I get along with everyone really well. Last night I was teasing them. There was a Puerto Rican, a Columbian, and myself sitting at a table and another Puerto Rican comes and sits down. I said, ‘Hey man, you got to leave. This table is for Hispanics only.’ I just goof around like that.
There’s one manager who doesn’t like to admit when his people do something wrong. He comes in the morning and I work overnight shifts. He’ll criticize the work and I’ll tell him that I wasn’t the one who did it but I’m defenseless. What am I going to do? Smart off to the boss and lose my job?
Today, he was talking to a female and I don’t know if she tried sticking up for herself because I came into the conversation late but I came around the corner and he was yelling at her. He said, ‘Just remember who gets the last laugh. ME. And he started laughing in her face.
I thought, ‘What a jerk.’ You’re going to try and pull a power trip like that. What’s your problem? You belong to a big corporation, you’re supposed to know how to talk to people, don’t say, ‘who gets the last laugh.’ And don’t threaten me. I get on the defensive very quickly when people threaten me.
If this happens to me I’m going to get a lawyer. I’m serious. I’m going to start suing people. Instead of beating them up I’m going to sue them. Might as well.

— Albin

Comment

1. almighty don’t like nobody

   — · Jun 25, 12:58 PM · #

2. Wow Albin. I just re-read this interview again since you posted it two weeks ago. It’s still brilliant. More, more!

   — Amanda · Jul 12, 03:31 PM · #

3. Keep your head up and fingers crossed ole pal.

   — · Jul 19, 09:12 PM · #

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